"A welcome start," says T4D
A few HS trains resume from Monday
1 direct morning train up via Ramsgate,
and 1 back in the evening - but just Mon-Fri.
Protest meeting promised more
Hundreds of angry local commuters packed into the Bohemian's upstairs room on Friday 22nd Jan to find out what progress is being made - and were updated us on the problems we need to make a fuss about.
When will fast trains again travel via Deal and Sandwich?
How long is it going to take to mend the seawall?
When will the shuttle services be improved?
We heard from MP Charlie Elphicke, Network Rail engineers and Southeastern managers and timetablers that they had heard and understood our problems, and were working hard.
Two new trains: 08.42 arr St Pancras, 17.50 dep
From Monday 25 January, a high speed train up our line has attached to another train at Ramsgate. Our portion leaves Dover Priory at 6.45am and calls at Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal (07.02) and Sandwich before connecting at Ramsgate then travelling via Ashford Int and arriving at St Pancras Int at 8.42am.
An evening service will leave St Pancras Int at 5.50pm travel via Ashford Int and arrive at Deal 7.26pm, Dover Priory at 7.43pm. It will call at Sandwich, Deal, Walmer and Martin Mill after detaching from a Margate service at Ramsgate.
More direct trains needed
T4D is also pressing for more direct trains at weekends and in the evenings, and emphasising that good communications are vital - if this is going to go on for months.
"Sensitive"
"Not all Deal and Sandwich travellers have regular 9-5 jobs," says Ian Killbery. "Some people have to work late, or go out in the evenings, so that is a big priority. And weekend travel is an important contributor to the local economy - not to mention those who travel at weekends to visit family or leisure events. Above all, we need journey information at stations and on trains to be sensitive to the needs of travellers when arrangements change, or for those who are not doing this every day."
Local MP Charlie Elphicke leads a new Task Force which aims to speed up the repair work - we've yet to hear how long he expects it to take (but it looks like many months).
Southeastern Trains chief timetabler Paul Wilding said they would look at splitting other 12-car Margate trains at Ramsgate to give us at least one more direct HS train (an hour earlier in the morning, which is badly-needed) - but "staff shortages were an issue".
Communications director Alison Nolan promised improvement in information to travellers, and clear instructructions to staff and contractors about handling connections.
Actions since the last meeting:
We have met with MP Charlie Elphicke;
We put in specific suggestions to him and Southeastern with practical timings for relief fast trains via the Minster Loop and Canterbury West and expect a response.
Given it will take many months to repair the seawall break, replacement bus services are not a satisfactory solution.
A few HS trains resume from Monday
1 direct morning train up via Ramsgate,
and 1 back in the evening - but just Mon-Fri.
Protest meeting promised more
Hundreds of angry local commuters packed into the Bohemian's upstairs room on Friday 22nd Jan to find out what progress is being made - and were updated us on the problems we need to make a fuss about.
When will fast trains again travel via Deal and Sandwich?
How long is it going to take to mend the seawall?
When will the shuttle services be improved?
We heard from MP Charlie Elphicke, Network Rail engineers and Southeastern managers and timetablers that they had heard and understood our problems, and were working hard.
Two new trains: 08.42 arr St Pancras, 17.50 dep
From Monday 25 January, a high speed train up our line has attached to another train at Ramsgate. Our portion leaves Dover Priory at 6.45am and calls at Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal (07.02) and Sandwich before connecting at Ramsgate then travelling via Ashford Int and arriving at St Pancras Int at 8.42am.
An evening service will leave St Pancras Int at 5.50pm travel via Ashford Int and arrive at Deal 7.26pm, Dover Priory at 7.43pm. It will call at Sandwich, Deal, Walmer and Martin Mill after detaching from a Margate service at Ramsgate.
More direct trains needed
T4D is also pressing for more direct trains at weekends and in the evenings, and emphasising that good communications are vital - if this is going to go on for months.
"Sensitive"
"Not all Deal and Sandwich travellers have regular 9-5 jobs," says Ian Killbery. "Some people have to work late, or go out in the evenings, so that is a big priority. And weekend travel is an important contributor to the local economy - not to mention those who travel at weekends to visit family or leisure events. Above all, we need journey information at stations and on trains to be sensitive to the needs of travellers when arrangements change, or for those who are not doing this every day."
Local MP Charlie Elphicke leads a new Task Force which aims to speed up the repair work - we've yet to hear how long he expects it to take (but it looks like many months).
Southeastern Trains chief timetabler Paul Wilding said they would look at splitting other 12-car Margate trains at Ramsgate to give us at least one more direct HS train (an hour earlier in the morning, which is badly-needed) - but "staff shortages were an issue".
Communications director Alison Nolan promised improvement in information to travellers, and clear instructructions to staff and contractors about handling connections.
Actions since the last meeting:
We have met with MP Charlie Elphicke;
We put in specific suggestions to him and Southeastern with practical timings for relief fast trains via the Minster Loop and Canterbury West and expect a response.
Given it will take many months to repair the seawall break, replacement bus services are not a satisfactory solution.
Coastal line severed at Dover
Rush-hour fast trains could still run via Deal & Sandwich. Here's how.
Now off-peak services from Ramsgate to St Pancras run every 15 minutes - what a waste.
Rush-hour fast trains could still run via Deal & Sandwich. Here's how.
Now off-peak services from Ramsgate to St Pancras run every 15 minutes - what a waste.
Map shows where the line is broken. Trains4deal says,"Let's use the "Minster Loop" for an alternative direct High Speed service."
Come and help us campaign to get Southeastern Trains to improve its completely inadequate response to the landslide. We want direct fast trains - no changes, no buses.
From now on each week day Margate will have EIGHT morning peak departures for St Pancras; Deal and Sandwich will have NONE.
The emergency train/bus/train service is unreliable, inefficient and slow. Much better rail solutions are available.
The disruption will continue for many months threatening the livelihoods of both commuters and businesses in the towns. Come and find out how we can get improvements.
1. Additional peak-time HS1 services to St Pancras via Minster and Canterbury West.
Additional fast trains were provided on this route in 2008 when the line was closed and they must be brought back now. Journey times will be near 90 minutes from Deal.
2. The reintroduction of the direct HS1 service from Dover and Deal to St Pancras via Ramsgate and Herne Bay.
This is already in the timetable and the DfT is paying for its provision but it has been unilaterally withdrawn by Southeastern.
From now on each week day Margate will have EIGHT morning peak departures for St Pancras; Deal and Sandwich will have NONE.
The emergency train/bus/train service is unreliable, inefficient and slow. Much better rail solutions are available.
The disruption will continue for many months threatening the livelihoods of both commuters and businesses in the towns. Come and find out how we can get improvements.
1. Additional peak-time HS1 services to St Pancras via Minster and Canterbury West.
Additional fast trains were provided on this route in 2008 when the line was closed and they must be brought back now. Journey times will be near 90 minutes from Deal.
2. The reintroduction of the direct HS1 service from Dover and Deal to St Pancras via Ramsgate and Herne Bay.
This is already in the timetable and the DfT is paying for its provision but it has been unilaterally withdrawn by Southeastern.
So how do you get to work?
Normally Deal and Sandwich would have FIVE morning peak HS trains up to St Pancras.
In Southeastern's emergency timetable, FOUR of those trains now start from Folkestone (the other side of the landslip), but ONE starts from Ashford:
- 05.54 dep from Deal (arr St Pancras 07.25) - now starts from Folkestone
- 06.32 dep from Deal arr 0754 - 'Train A' now starts from Ashford
- 06.52, arr 08.20 - now starts from Folkestone
- 07.30 arr 0854 - now starts from Folkestone (changed during the week)
- 09.31 arr 10.55 - now starts from Folkestone
Better alternatives
(1) We say Train 'A' could start earlier from Dover instead of Ashford and run via the Minster Loop (marked in red on the map above), calling at Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal (0607), Sandwich, and Canterbury W. It would keep the same departure time from Ashford, as many commuters from that station rely on this service.
Approx dep times from Deal would be 0607 instead of 0632, to arr St Pancras 0754 as usual - an earlier start but a much less stressful and more reliable journey.
(2) Instead of "train B', the 12-car 0616 from Margate could start in two halves, six cars from Margate and the other six earlier from Dover via Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal & Sandwich. It could either join at Ramsgate, or Ashford.
Approx dep time from Deal would be approx 0602, if joining at Ramsgate, otherwise about 0610 if via Minster loop.
We think this would give the Dover- Sandwich line at least TWO direct and fairly fast HS trains to London. That's not much, but it would be better than the current offering - and probably the best that can be done, given the limited number of train-sets.
How do you get past the landslip?
Southeastern offers:
(a) shuttle rail service between Dover and Ramsgate, where you can catch an HS train to St Pancras (but the connections aren't brilliant);
(b) rail replacement bus service between Dover and Folkestone Central, where you can catch either an HS train or a connection to Ashford, where you'll change again;
(c) free parking at Folkestone West station.
(d) There is also a 06.38 fast bus to Folkestone from Deal. Hardly anybody knew about it so it left nearly empty earlier this week.
There is clearly assumption by Southeastern timetablers that affected Sandwich/Deal/Dover commuters will drive to either Folkestone West or Ashford if they want to avoid the horrors of changing trains and the replacement bus.
Normally Deal and Sandwich would have FIVE morning peak HS trains up to St Pancras.
In Southeastern's emergency timetable, FOUR of those trains now start from Folkestone (the other side of the landslip), but ONE starts from Ashford:
- 05.54 dep from Deal (arr St Pancras 07.25) - now starts from Folkestone
- 06.32 dep from Deal arr 0754 - 'Train A' now starts from Ashford
- 06.52, arr 08.20 - now starts from Folkestone
- 07.30 arr 0854 - now starts from Folkestone (changed during the week)
- 09.31 arr 10.55 - now starts from Folkestone
Better alternatives
(1) We say Train 'A' could start earlier from Dover instead of Ashford and run via the Minster Loop (marked in red on the map above), calling at Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal (0607), Sandwich, and Canterbury W. It would keep the same departure time from Ashford, as many commuters from that station rely on this service.
Approx dep times from Deal would be 0607 instead of 0632, to arr St Pancras 0754 as usual - an earlier start but a much less stressful and more reliable journey.
(2) Instead of "train B', the 12-car 0616 from Margate could start in two halves, six cars from Margate and the other six earlier from Dover via Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal & Sandwich. It could either join at Ramsgate, or Ashford.
Approx dep time from Deal would be approx 0602, if joining at Ramsgate, otherwise about 0610 if via Minster loop.
We think this would give the Dover- Sandwich line at least TWO direct and fairly fast HS trains to London. That's not much, but it would be better than the current offering - and probably the best that can be done, given the limited number of train-sets.
How do you get past the landslip?
Southeastern offers:
(a) shuttle rail service between Dover and Ramsgate, where you can catch an HS train to St Pancras (but the connections aren't brilliant);
(b) rail replacement bus service between Dover and Folkestone Central, where you can catch either an HS train or a connection to Ashford, where you'll change again;
(c) free parking at Folkestone West station.
(d) There is also a 06.38 fast bus to Folkestone from Deal. Hardly anybody knew about it so it left nearly empty earlier this week.
There is clearly assumption by Southeastern timetablers that affected Sandwich/Deal/Dover commuters will drive to either Folkestone West or Ashford if they want to avoid the horrors of changing trains and the replacement bus.
Tell us what you think of:
- their travel information?
- the bus and rail replacements offered?
- would you rather use a direct HS train
via the "Minster loop" (as shown on our map)?
- their travel information?
- the bus and rail replacements offered?
- would you rather use a direct HS train
via the "Minster loop" (as shown on our map)?
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Come to the Trains4deal protest meeting
Friday 22 January 2016 8.30pm in the Bohemian on Deal seafront opp. the pier Print out the leaflet (right) and please give to other travellers - and send in your email comments |
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Your comments:
Saturday 23 Jan:
For leisure travellers and families the worry is they might get used to travelling by car to Ashford or Ebbsfleet, which is quite a bit cheaper and cuts down the normal journey time from Deal to Ashford. I know lots of families who now travel by car to Ashford or Ebbsfleet when travelling in to London.
I would much prefer to travel on the high speed from Deal, however all the time the shuttle service is in place, as a family we'll just drive to Ashford.
Hope this feedback helps.
==============================
Friday 22 Jan:
I see Southeastern have just announced one peak-time highspeed service between Dover and St Pancras in the morning and one in the evening. While welcome for some, this is a very limited response. It is of no help to those who need to be in London around 7.30 or before 8am in the morning. Presumably it was announced on Friday to take some of the heat out of your protest meeting on Friday Jan 22. Can you please maintain pressure for more high speed direct trains in the earlier morning peak via Ramsgate or Minster loop, or insist at the very least that the Dover to Ramsgate shuttle starts earlier to connect with existing high speed services from Ramsgate, via Canterbury West.to arrive in London at 714 and 742. The existing arrangements are woefully inadequate. We must have something better than the patchwork of ill-timed and unreliable bus services. Good luck for your meeting.
==============================
Reason the task force has been created is because no one knows who is going to pay to fix the line yet. That's why there hasn't been any significant work done yet.
==============================
To compound the daily horror we have just been subjected to around 10 southeastern staff at Ramsgate performing a ticket check at the exit to the station! Could the MD of Southeastern explain to us why it is impossible to provide a workable service, but resource is being wasted on pointless monitoring?
==============================
I’m sure everyone will echo my tales of woe, but so far I’ve had to get three £25 taxis to Ramsgate to catch the London train, after the shuttle train was cancelled at the last minute and a promised replacement bus failed to show up. I have had to book a hotel at Heathrow and stay overnight to get a 10.10am flight to the US, because I didn’t feel confident the trains would be able get me from Deal in time. And I’ve so far stayed four nights in London, because by the time I’d got back home to Deal, it would almost be time to set out back again for early meetings.
The expense has been crippling, but what is most frustrating is the lack of accurate information, anywhere. You get on a train from London not knowing if there will be buses at Folkestone West or whether the connection at Ramsgate will show up. Last week, I waited 40 minutes in bitter cold on the platform at Ramsgate for a train towards Dover that - according to both the constant loudspeaker announcements and the boards - was running late but due any minute. Eventually, one of the station staff told us we were waiting for a train that had actually left five minutes before the London train pulled in, and that there wouldn’t be another one. Again got home by taxi, sharing with two other stranded Deal-ites.
But you know this already...
==============================
I can see where you are coming from with the services starting at Dover vice Margate 12 car and Ashford, however the resources aren't there to do that. If you think, the driver and on board manager for both those services need to come from somewhere and they are already on other trains starting from. I Folkestone and from Ashford and Margate and they would have to book on so much earlier that they wouldn't be able to work the last part of their shift so trains later in the day would be affected by no crew. there are no more members of staff to run these services.
==============================
Friday 15th:
I'm retired so don't have to travel to London but use it regularly for recreation, but won't be for awhile until this is sorted.
Can't believe the times of the buses from Dover or the fast trains from Ramsgate don't seem to have been co-ordinated in any way for people travelling from Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal & Sandwich.
People in the know have known for years that those tunnels have been unsafe and nothings been done.
I reckon it's going to be quite a while before they're up & running again. Using the Minster loop seems inevitable so it may as well be sooner rather than later.
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Only sheets for Mon-Friday trains available. New w/end poster up at Deal station today. No good way to return to Deal Sat evening and best to compare with the one on this site. Staff think the Folkestone option best in evenings, but travel vis Ramsgate better in morning. Do not count on National Rail Enquiries updating all journeys.
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Thursday 14th:
It is essential that the Minster Loop is a priority to a renewed all day/every day high sped service from Deal to London St Pancs.
Bus shuttles are unreliable, connections and communication also unreliable.
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The arrangements are sadly lacking, utilizing the minster loop which is available would solve the problem - a two hour journey is not acceptable - particularly as there is a long waiting time at Ramsgate to connect to the HS train- pull your finger out southeastern trains
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Wednesday 13th:
Im not opposed to greater use of the Minster loop but I think the focus on triage is a mistake. The focus should be on fixing the line quickly and permanently. This probably requires additional funds/ commitments from central government. Clearly at Dawlish there was a major commitment to resolving the issue quickly and there is not the same commitment to the Dover line because we are are relatively low priority. The only possible leverage we have is to commit to vote for the Tories nearest rivals at the next general election unless we see a major commitment to the area. Across the three affected constituencies this could make the government take notice. I say this as a natural Tory voter and a realist.
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Hi Sorry we didn't attend on Monday, only found your site on Tuesday.
I totally agree with every thing you have put here. Yesterday came via Folkestone before direct bus started, arrived at Dover with four minutes to spare. Would have been an hours wait or a taxi ride. With train bus train via Folkestone it now takes 1 hour 50 minutes to travel St Pancras to Walmer.
We all know there is no quick fix to re-installing the line. We need an adequate service now.
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The St Pancras circular route was very convenient not only for St Pancras passengers but those wishing to travel to intermediate stations such as the Medway Towns. Why is it not possible to have a circular route which starts at Dover terminating at Folkestone via St Pancras and then Folkestone to Dover via St Pancras??
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Travelling to London twice a week is utterly miserable at present.Non of the connections work well.Think the Minster Loop a great idea.Wish the TRAINS4DEAL protest at the Bohemian had been on the Deal Web earlier as would have attended but new nothing about it Have enormous respect for TRAINS4DEAL after the battle for HS1
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Tuesday 12th:
No . They are ill thought out and random in both information and performance. Deal seems to be an unwelcome adjunct for SE and at any excuse they drop us out of the equation . They have a legal responsibility to run HS trains from Deal , whether they like it or not . Many people have moved home and business to Deal on the back of fast trains . Who is going to pick up their costs ? SE? Network Rail? The collapse of the sea wall is clearly the result of years of neglect, not a few weeks heavy rain . Is there a compensation scheme ? And if not, why not?
However, just in the short term more trains MUST run from Deal.
==================
Monday 11th:
Sorry that I can't come to the meeting to lend support as I am driving (perforce) back to London that afternoon. I am not a daily commuter but have great sympathy for those who are. I do go to London once every two weeks or so, however, and I am appalled by the lack of joined up thinking by Southeastern - replacement buses that don't connect to the service intended! Surely this can and must be sorted out at a minimum. It is nothing short of insulting.
Also, as a minimum, could we have an indication of times during which the Deal ticket office is open so as to get advice from a real live person. Opening hours seem to be a closely guarded secret. At present, there is a sign saying the ticket office is open 05.45-19.10! Not much use if there is no one manning it. I have gone at various times during the day, but have not yet managed to catch anyone on duty. There is also a sign saying that there is an alternative route to London via Canterbury, but Canterbury is not on the timetable boards! Unbelievable. My needs are nothing like as urgent as the commuters, but presumably Southeastern would like my business - if they want it, they will have to let me know what my options are.
When things go wrong (and a collapsed sea wall is as wrong as it comes) no one expects it to be easy, nor for there to be a miracle solution, but a good clear system of communication should be possible and would reduce frustration and unnecessary stress.
==============
I don't work in London but I have quite a lot of journeys to visit my sick sister on London, sometimes returning Sundays. I waited at Folkestone for an hour for a replacement bus Sunday - there was no sign to say which platform the buses go from. I will only go via Ramsgate in future , but I do support your plan for HSs to go via Ramsgate loop. I am also sorry they still expect us to pay a high speed price and claim it back!!!
==============
Monday 11th:
Replacement buses must be timed to connect with the intended service - in the event of unavoidable delays, the train must wait.
Better information about alternative routes (not using buses) should be available.
The manned hours of the Deal station should be clearly displayed so that advice can be sought from a real person.
==============
Monday 11th:
The train service from Deal to St Pancras is inadequate at the moment. I have hospital appointments and an operation in London coming up for treatment for pain, and travelling for me is very difficult as it is, without an extended journey with extra travel changes. Please consider a direct HS train to St Pancras via the Minster loop. Thank you
==============
Sunday 10th:
Southeastern's response to the broken line is inadequate. The Minster loop is a far more effective and fair solution for the commuters of Dover, Sandwich and Deal. It needs to be resolved now.
==============
Sunday 10th:
My partner and I have just put our house on sale this weekend and plan to move from Deal to Ashford. The current situation with the ridiculously unreliable connections sadly makes it too difficult to commute from Deal anymore.
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Sunday 10th:
Fix it Southeastern trains. Use a bit of imagination and creativity to improve this vital commute as your inept and useless inspections of the sea wall have shown you are clearly in breach of your contractual obligations as a train operator.
==============
Sunday 10th:
Hi, I go up to London every week. I can cope with the bus up via Ramsgate but am not prepared to do the train/bus/train coming home.
Also I heard a train guy say this week that they don't think it will be fixed till June!
Unfortunately I can't make Monday's mtg as I"ll be in London but keen to support suggestions for better service and also to encourage them to fix quicker.
==============
Sunday 10th:
I am driving to Folkestone west from Walmer, and I'd be happy to offer lift back to Deal for anyone of my fellow sufferers.
can't offer a permanent car share, as I am a bit erratic on the return, but will normally be on the 17.37or 18.37 - feel free to drop me a line on 07718207579 And see if I am on!
==============
Sunday 10th:
Personally I think Southeastern planners have done a super job with such little time to work things out. Most of your plans are unrealistic and impossible to resource.
NOTE from Trains4deal: We don't think this view is widely shared. The alternatives we propose are based on painstaking research of timetables and other publicly-available information, plus discussions with industry insiders and other informed commentators. We are well aware of the constraints on what is possible (e.g. train- and crew -availability, how may trains can run down the track in peak hours, etc), but we still think that our local commuters and other rail travellers deserve a better deal than what's actually been delivered this past week.
==============
Friday 8 Jan:
This morning, the 6.34 shuttle to Ramsgate was running two minutes late and we had debate about whether or not to go and get the bus service to Folkestone West when the train came in. We got on it and travelled to Ramsgate only to be held outside the station for a couple more minutes. When we arrived at the platform and the train doors opened, we could see the 06.58 train to St Pancras pulling out of the station. As you can image, 40 or so furious "customers" rounded on the station staff. They claimed that they had asked the driver to wait for our shuttle but the driver refused. This is not good enough especially as that shuttle service has been put on to connect to the trains at Ramsgate. It's always a bit of a rush as you only have a few mins to get down and then up the stairs to the correct platform. The shuttle should leave at least two minutes earlier or the driver should wait. Not the happiest of bunnies this morning.
On the plus side the express bus service from FW to Deal and Sandwich seems to be working OK although the Deal bus is very crowded.
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Friday 8 Jan:
I go in to St Pancras from Walmer 3 days a week, paying on a daily basis, usually on the earliest off peak train. Since the line collapse I'm now driving to Folkestone West for the 09.16 if I want to get to St Pancras (changing at Ashford) for 10.21 ( I have a connection for another train from Marylebone). Alternatively I go via Ramsgate on the 08.47, getting in at 10.46. Both are now frustratingly longer than normal (the 0839, 1 change at Ashford, in at 1021, or the 0939 direct which arrives at 10.51).
I agree, they need to sort out some more direct trains, via Canterbury, but not just at peak time -off-peak and super off-peak too.
The current set up is a shambles. The 'express' buses don't take 20 minutes as the schedule says, when there's any traffic they miss the connection. Why they pick up at Folkestone Central too is a mystery, get everyone who needs a bus off at Folkestone West.
At Folkestone West the car park is virtually full and they have no plans for an overflow, don't seem interested.
It's also impossible to get the reduced fare they promised, excluding high speed, at Folkestone West. Even though I have a driving licence showing I live in Walmer they say I could be a Folkestone resident so won't sell a ticket from Walmer. I have to explain this constantly on the train and buy a ticket, after queuing, at St Pancras.
6 months of this could do me in.
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As someone who spends a fortune on HS commuting on the 05.57 from Deal to St Pancras I would be happy for a straight through route. My husband gets a train an hour later we own one car so we can't both drive to folkestone,nor do we wish to. Also my student daughter does not own a car so it is assumed we will put up with awful journey for months. The communication from southern is rubbish Christmas eve we had no idea if we were going to get home.
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The service has been very poor this week. While the fast bus from Deal has been efficient, it leaves me with 25 minutes wait in Folkestone. On the return, there are no announcements in FKW, with Tuesday's 17.37 STP departure stopping at Ashford due driver hours, 20 min wait, then no fast bus to Deal at FKW. Journey home took nearly 3 hrs!! With little sleep, this morning's 0545 stopped at Ashford for 30 mins and I missed an 8am meeting. Utterly dreadful start to 2016. The direct train from Dover via Ramsgate makes complete sense. They must have thought about it. Why have they not implemented it?
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Hello Have tweeted quite a bit on this and just found your website. Approve of most of your suggestions. Doubt can make Monday as having 0430 alarms at the moment but hope goes well! Email to Charlie Elphicke as below, best wishes Tristan Dear Charlie Elphicke There are several suggestions that would seem to make sense during the current rail trouble, but the two main ones distil down to this: a. consider a direct service from Dover to St Pancras via Ramsgate b. with regard to shuttle trains on the Dover-Sandwich line, in either direction, or for replacement buses, please make sure these match up with train services. For example, meet HS trains at Folkestone West, even if they're delayed. Make sure trains from Ramsgate to Deal/Dover (and vice versa) arrive and leave to be times with the Ramsgate HS services.
-----------
I have been posting various tweets on the South East system and have also suggested the route as outlined. I am not happy or satisfied with their responses. I was not particularly happy this morning either whereupon having driven to Folkestone Central, the (0711) slow train was still on the platform which delayed the HS. To make it worse we were kicked off at Ashford this evening due to having no driver to continue our journey to Folkestone. Hundreds disrupted and having to squash on the 1852 slow train to Folkestone rather than merely having 1 Staff member - a driver, continue on. all of this is of course on top of the seemingly uncaring, thoughtless , nonsensical approach being offered by South Eastern for rail replacement work that will no doubt take a fair few months to complete. South Eastern have, and continue doing so, in treating rail passengers with such disdain as to suggest they are doing us a favour. We have no choice but to utilise their services and we need both the High Speed and regular service to be run by 2 separate and different companies in order to offer competition and improvement.
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I agree with all of the above. We must have direct HS trains from Deal during the peak hours. Have so far been going via Ramsgate but connections mean 15-25 mins waiting on station, not good enough! Also, the information regarding current replacement services has been appalling, the fast buses in particular which I only heard about today.
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Agree wholeheartedly with direct trains proposal. The alternative services are a joke. Either stuck on a bus (and what happens during Operation Stack or increased security at Dover to traffic?) or waiting in the cold to connect for half an hour at Ramsgate? We decided to drive from Deal to Ramsgate and catch the train from there, but a commute which now exceeds 5 hours a day isn't viable long term. As for the "compensation" - it is derisory. Would like to come to the meeting on Monday 11th but have a work function that evening
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They are also running a fast bus to Walmer/Deal from Folkestone West linking from the 17.37 and 18.37 from St Pancras but commuters were told to get off at Folkestone Central...!
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I'm a season ticket holder, commuitng daily from Martin Mill to London St Pancras. I normally catch the 0608 departure to arrive in London at 0725. The replacement train/bus/train service, which I experienced this morning was laborious. The bus connections are poor. Please do try to pressurise Sotheastern to run some direct high speed trains from Dover, Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal and Sandwich, via Ramsgate and Canterbury for the early peak services. Or, at the very least, run a connecting train shuttle from Dover to Ramsgate, to connect with the 0558 and 0628 Ramsgate services to London, via Canterbury West, to allow arrival in London at 0714 and 0742.
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Subject: Unbelievable to think that in this day and age (Southeastern) can't get the most basic of transport needs sorted out and I pay £6800.00 per annum
Today arrived at St P to get the 18.37 to Folkestone West to get to Deal. It is painful enough having to leave home at 5.30 instead of 6.30 and getting home at earliest at 20.30 due to the farcical situation of the line closure. And as with many others we demand compensation and a speedy resolve. BUT today's clown ole activity is really taking the .......
So arrived at St P to take the 18.37 as far as it runs at present - learn that the train would be delayed because of staff shortages due to late running incoming train.
Train arrived into platform and we boarded and train left at 19.00 approx 23 minutes late
We were told by guard that there would be an express coach to meet us to take us in our way Direct to Deal as has been the agreement.
Arrived at Folkestone West - there was NOT ONE member of southeastern on the arrival platform. It was pouring with rain.
We proceeded to walk to the far end of the east bound car park where there were two blue double decker buses.
The bus driver told us they were not running and we should go over to the west bound car park.
On travelling across the station I met four Revenue officers on the west bound station. I said to them. "Would it not be helpful to have been on the other side to assist us". The most incredibly rude and arrogant women looked at me, smirked and said "Yes it would". I asked her for her name. She refused to give it to me. This is intolerable behaviour. I took a photograph of the group as they refused to give me any details. So the women in turn took photographs of me.
As a passenger paying £6800 a year I do not expect to be treated in such a way.
On moving to the west bound car park we were told that the express press Coach had left completely empty on time despite the train it was due to meet was running 20 minutes late. We were told the next coach would be 40 minutes. I lost my temper but calmed and apologised.
We were left in the pouring rain with no transport arguing with a bus driver who explained it was not his fault.
Eventually after 20 minutes the bus controller was able to arouse one of the sleeping drivers on the otherside of the station East Bound We then had to traipse across the station again to get on a bus.
The driver showed absolutely no compassion for the passengers and decided to take the longest possible route from Folkstone West to Follestone Central on her way to Dover by the longest route possible. She failed to use the M20 but tol all the A roads. It is now 21.00 - and he situation is utterly preposterous and intolerable.
Sent from my iPhone
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Subject: Today arrived at St P to get the 18.37 to Folkestone
Today arrived at St P to get the 18.37 to Folkestone West to get to Deal
Arrived to learn that the train would be delayed because of staff shortages
Train arrived into platform and boarded and train left at 19.00 approx
We were told by guard that there would be an express coach to meet us.
Arrived at Folkedtone West - there was not one member of southeastern on the arrival platform. It was pouring with rain.
We proceeded to walk to the far end of the east bound car park where there were two blue double decker buses.
The bus driver told us they were not running and we should go over to the west bound car park.
On travelling across the station I met four Revenue officers on the west bound station. I said to them. "Would it not be helpful to have been on the other side to assist us". The most incredibly rude and arrogant women looked at me, smirked and said "Yes it would". I asked her for her name. She refused to give it to me. This is intolerable behaviour. I took a photograph of the group as they refused to give me any details. So the women in turn took photographs of me.
As a passenger paying £6800 a year I do not expect to be treated in such a way.
On moving to the car park we were told that the express Coach had left on the dot of when the train should have arrived. We were told the next coach would be 40 minutes
Consequently we were left in the pouring rain with no transport.
Eventually after 20 minutes the bus controller was able to arouse one of the sleeping drivers on the otherside of the station East Bound We then had to traipse across the station again to get on a bus.
The driver showed absolutely no compassion for the passengers and decided to take the longest possible route from Folkstone West to Follestone Central on her way to Dover by the longest route possible. She failed to use the M20 but took all the A roads. It is now 21.00 - and he situation is utterly preposterous and intolerable.
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Saturday 23 Jan:
For leisure travellers and families the worry is they might get used to travelling by car to Ashford or Ebbsfleet, which is quite a bit cheaper and cuts down the normal journey time from Deal to Ashford. I know lots of families who now travel by car to Ashford or Ebbsfleet when travelling in to London.
I would much prefer to travel on the high speed from Deal, however all the time the shuttle service is in place, as a family we'll just drive to Ashford.
Hope this feedback helps.
==============================
Friday 22 Jan:
I see Southeastern have just announced one peak-time highspeed service between Dover and St Pancras in the morning and one in the evening. While welcome for some, this is a very limited response. It is of no help to those who need to be in London around 7.30 or before 8am in the morning. Presumably it was announced on Friday to take some of the heat out of your protest meeting on Friday Jan 22. Can you please maintain pressure for more high speed direct trains in the earlier morning peak via Ramsgate or Minster loop, or insist at the very least that the Dover to Ramsgate shuttle starts earlier to connect with existing high speed services from Ramsgate, via Canterbury West.to arrive in London at 714 and 742. The existing arrangements are woefully inadequate. We must have something better than the patchwork of ill-timed and unreliable bus services. Good luck for your meeting.
==============================
Reason the task force has been created is because no one knows who is going to pay to fix the line yet. That's why there hasn't been any significant work done yet.
==============================
To compound the daily horror we have just been subjected to around 10 southeastern staff at Ramsgate performing a ticket check at the exit to the station! Could the MD of Southeastern explain to us why it is impossible to provide a workable service, but resource is being wasted on pointless monitoring?
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I’m sure everyone will echo my tales of woe, but so far I’ve had to get three £25 taxis to Ramsgate to catch the London train, after the shuttle train was cancelled at the last minute and a promised replacement bus failed to show up. I have had to book a hotel at Heathrow and stay overnight to get a 10.10am flight to the US, because I didn’t feel confident the trains would be able get me from Deal in time. And I’ve so far stayed four nights in London, because by the time I’d got back home to Deal, it would almost be time to set out back again for early meetings.
The expense has been crippling, but what is most frustrating is the lack of accurate information, anywhere. You get on a train from London not knowing if there will be buses at Folkestone West or whether the connection at Ramsgate will show up. Last week, I waited 40 minutes in bitter cold on the platform at Ramsgate for a train towards Dover that - according to both the constant loudspeaker announcements and the boards - was running late but due any minute. Eventually, one of the station staff told us we were waiting for a train that had actually left five minutes before the London train pulled in, and that there wouldn’t be another one. Again got home by taxi, sharing with two other stranded Deal-ites.
But you know this already...
==============================
I can see where you are coming from with the services starting at Dover vice Margate 12 car and Ashford, however the resources aren't there to do that. If you think, the driver and on board manager for both those services need to come from somewhere and they are already on other trains starting from. I Folkestone and from Ashford and Margate and they would have to book on so much earlier that they wouldn't be able to work the last part of their shift so trains later in the day would be affected by no crew. there are no more members of staff to run these services.
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Friday 15th:
I'm retired so don't have to travel to London but use it regularly for recreation, but won't be for awhile until this is sorted.
Can't believe the times of the buses from Dover or the fast trains from Ramsgate don't seem to have been co-ordinated in any way for people travelling from Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal & Sandwich.
People in the know have known for years that those tunnels have been unsafe and nothings been done.
I reckon it's going to be quite a while before they're up & running again. Using the Minster loop seems inevitable so it may as well be sooner rather than later.
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Only sheets for Mon-Friday trains available. New w/end poster up at Deal station today. No good way to return to Deal Sat evening and best to compare with the one on this site. Staff think the Folkestone option best in evenings, but travel vis Ramsgate better in morning. Do not count on National Rail Enquiries updating all journeys.
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Thursday 14th:
It is essential that the Minster Loop is a priority to a renewed all day/every day high sped service from Deal to London St Pancs.
Bus shuttles are unreliable, connections and communication also unreliable.
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The arrangements are sadly lacking, utilizing the minster loop which is available would solve the problem - a two hour journey is not acceptable - particularly as there is a long waiting time at Ramsgate to connect to the HS train- pull your finger out southeastern trains
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Wednesday 13th:
Im not opposed to greater use of the Minster loop but I think the focus on triage is a mistake. The focus should be on fixing the line quickly and permanently. This probably requires additional funds/ commitments from central government. Clearly at Dawlish there was a major commitment to resolving the issue quickly and there is not the same commitment to the Dover line because we are are relatively low priority. The only possible leverage we have is to commit to vote for the Tories nearest rivals at the next general election unless we see a major commitment to the area. Across the three affected constituencies this could make the government take notice. I say this as a natural Tory voter and a realist.
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Hi Sorry we didn't attend on Monday, only found your site on Tuesday.
I totally agree with every thing you have put here. Yesterday came via Folkestone before direct bus started, arrived at Dover with four minutes to spare. Would have been an hours wait or a taxi ride. With train bus train via Folkestone it now takes 1 hour 50 minutes to travel St Pancras to Walmer.
We all know there is no quick fix to re-installing the line. We need an adequate service now.
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The St Pancras circular route was very convenient not only for St Pancras passengers but those wishing to travel to intermediate stations such as the Medway Towns. Why is it not possible to have a circular route which starts at Dover terminating at Folkestone via St Pancras and then Folkestone to Dover via St Pancras??
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Travelling to London twice a week is utterly miserable at present.Non of the connections work well.Think the Minster Loop a great idea.Wish the TRAINS4DEAL protest at the Bohemian had been on the Deal Web earlier as would have attended but new nothing about it Have enormous respect for TRAINS4DEAL after the battle for HS1
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Tuesday 12th:
No . They are ill thought out and random in both information and performance. Deal seems to be an unwelcome adjunct for SE and at any excuse they drop us out of the equation . They have a legal responsibility to run HS trains from Deal , whether they like it or not . Many people have moved home and business to Deal on the back of fast trains . Who is going to pick up their costs ? SE? Network Rail? The collapse of the sea wall is clearly the result of years of neglect, not a few weeks heavy rain . Is there a compensation scheme ? And if not, why not?
However, just in the short term more trains MUST run from Deal.
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Monday 11th:
Sorry that I can't come to the meeting to lend support as I am driving (perforce) back to London that afternoon. I am not a daily commuter but have great sympathy for those who are. I do go to London once every two weeks or so, however, and I am appalled by the lack of joined up thinking by Southeastern - replacement buses that don't connect to the service intended! Surely this can and must be sorted out at a minimum. It is nothing short of insulting.
Also, as a minimum, could we have an indication of times during which the Deal ticket office is open so as to get advice from a real live person. Opening hours seem to be a closely guarded secret. At present, there is a sign saying the ticket office is open 05.45-19.10! Not much use if there is no one manning it. I have gone at various times during the day, but have not yet managed to catch anyone on duty. There is also a sign saying that there is an alternative route to London via Canterbury, but Canterbury is not on the timetable boards! Unbelievable. My needs are nothing like as urgent as the commuters, but presumably Southeastern would like my business - if they want it, they will have to let me know what my options are.
When things go wrong (and a collapsed sea wall is as wrong as it comes) no one expects it to be easy, nor for there to be a miracle solution, but a good clear system of communication should be possible and would reduce frustration and unnecessary stress.
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I don't work in London but I have quite a lot of journeys to visit my sick sister on London, sometimes returning Sundays. I waited at Folkestone for an hour for a replacement bus Sunday - there was no sign to say which platform the buses go from. I will only go via Ramsgate in future , but I do support your plan for HSs to go via Ramsgate loop. I am also sorry they still expect us to pay a high speed price and claim it back!!!
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Monday 11th:
Replacement buses must be timed to connect with the intended service - in the event of unavoidable delays, the train must wait.
Better information about alternative routes (not using buses) should be available.
The manned hours of the Deal station should be clearly displayed so that advice can be sought from a real person.
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Monday 11th:
The train service from Deal to St Pancras is inadequate at the moment. I have hospital appointments and an operation in London coming up for treatment for pain, and travelling for me is very difficult as it is, without an extended journey with extra travel changes. Please consider a direct HS train to St Pancras via the Minster loop. Thank you
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Sunday 10th:
Southeastern's response to the broken line is inadequate. The Minster loop is a far more effective and fair solution for the commuters of Dover, Sandwich and Deal. It needs to be resolved now.
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Sunday 10th:
My partner and I have just put our house on sale this weekend and plan to move from Deal to Ashford. The current situation with the ridiculously unreliable connections sadly makes it too difficult to commute from Deal anymore.
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Sunday 10th:
Fix it Southeastern trains. Use a bit of imagination and creativity to improve this vital commute as your inept and useless inspections of the sea wall have shown you are clearly in breach of your contractual obligations as a train operator.
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Sunday 10th:
Hi, I go up to London every week. I can cope with the bus up via Ramsgate but am not prepared to do the train/bus/train coming home.
Also I heard a train guy say this week that they don't think it will be fixed till June!
Unfortunately I can't make Monday's mtg as I"ll be in London but keen to support suggestions for better service and also to encourage them to fix quicker.
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Sunday 10th:
I am driving to Folkestone west from Walmer, and I'd be happy to offer lift back to Deal for anyone of my fellow sufferers.
can't offer a permanent car share, as I am a bit erratic on the return, but will normally be on the 17.37or 18.37 - feel free to drop me a line on 07718207579 And see if I am on!
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Sunday 10th:
Personally I think Southeastern planners have done a super job with such little time to work things out. Most of your plans are unrealistic and impossible to resource.
NOTE from Trains4deal: We don't think this view is widely shared. The alternatives we propose are based on painstaking research of timetables and other publicly-available information, plus discussions with industry insiders and other informed commentators. We are well aware of the constraints on what is possible (e.g. train- and crew -availability, how may trains can run down the track in peak hours, etc), but we still think that our local commuters and other rail travellers deserve a better deal than what's actually been delivered this past week.
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Friday 8 Jan:
This morning, the 6.34 shuttle to Ramsgate was running two minutes late and we had debate about whether or not to go and get the bus service to Folkestone West when the train came in. We got on it and travelled to Ramsgate only to be held outside the station for a couple more minutes. When we arrived at the platform and the train doors opened, we could see the 06.58 train to St Pancras pulling out of the station. As you can image, 40 or so furious "customers" rounded on the station staff. They claimed that they had asked the driver to wait for our shuttle but the driver refused. This is not good enough especially as that shuttle service has been put on to connect to the trains at Ramsgate. It's always a bit of a rush as you only have a few mins to get down and then up the stairs to the correct platform. The shuttle should leave at least two minutes earlier or the driver should wait. Not the happiest of bunnies this morning.
On the plus side the express bus service from FW to Deal and Sandwich seems to be working OK although the Deal bus is very crowded.
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Friday 8 Jan:
I go in to St Pancras from Walmer 3 days a week, paying on a daily basis, usually on the earliest off peak train. Since the line collapse I'm now driving to Folkestone West for the 09.16 if I want to get to St Pancras (changing at Ashford) for 10.21 ( I have a connection for another train from Marylebone). Alternatively I go via Ramsgate on the 08.47, getting in at 10.46. Both are now frustratingly longer than normal (the 0839, 1 change at Ashford, in at 1021, or the 0939 direct which arrives at 10.51).
I agree, they need to sort out some more direct trains, via Canterbury, but not just at peak time -off-peak and super off-peak too.
The current set up is a shambles. The 'express' buses don't take 20 minutes as the schedule says, when there's any traffic they miss the connection. Why they pick up at Folkestone Central too is a mystery, get everyone who needs a bus off at Folkestone West.
At Folkestone West the car park is virtually full and they have no plans for an overflow, don't seem interested.
It's also impossible to get the reduced fare they promised, excluding high speed, at Folkestone West. Even though I have a driving licence showing I live in Walmer they say I could be a Folkestone resident so won't sell a ticket from Walmer. I have to explain this constantly on the train and buy a ticket, after queuing, at St Pancras.
6 months of this could do me in.
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As someone who spends a fortune on HS commuting on the 05.57 from Deal to St Pancras I would be happy for a straight through route. My husband gets a train an hour later we own one car so we can't both drive to folkestone,nor do we wish to. Also my student daughter does not own a car so it is assumed we will put up with awful journey for months. The communication from southern is rubbish Christmas eve we had no idea if we were going to get home.
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The service has been very poor this week. While the fast bus from Deal has been efficient, it leaves me with 25 minutes wait in Folkestone. On the return, there are no announcements in FKW, with Tuesday's 17.37 STP departure stopping at Ashford due driver hours, 20 min wait, then no fast bus to Deal at FKW. Journey home took nearly 3 hrs!! With little sleep, this morning's 0545 stopped at Ashford for 30 mins and I missed an 8am meeting. Utterly dreadful start to 2016. The direct train from Dover via Ramsgate makes complete sense. They must have thought about it. Why have they not implemented it?
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Hello Have tweeted quite a bit on this and just found your website. Approve of most of your suggestions. Doubt can make Monday as having 0430 alarms at the moment but hope goes well! Email to Charlie Elphicke as below, best wishes Tristan Dear Charlie Elphicke There are several suggestions that would seem to make sense during the current rail trouble, but the two main ones distil down to this: a. consider a direct service from Dover to St Pancras via Ramsgate b. with regard to shuttle trains on the Dover-Sandwich line, in either direction, or for replacement buses, please make sure these match up with train services. For example, meet HS trains at Folkestone West, even if they're delayed. Make sure trains from Ramsgate to Deal/Dover (and vice versa) arrive and leave to be times with the Ramsgate HS services.
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I have been posting various tweets on the South East system and have also suggested the route as outlined. I am not happy or satisfied with their responses. I was not particularly happy this morning either whereupon having driven to Folkestone Central, the (0711) slow train was still on the platform which delayed the HS. To make it worse we were kicked off at Ashford this evening due to having no driver to continue our journey to Folkestone. Hundreds disrupted and having to squash on the 1852 slow train to Folkestone rather than merely having 1 Staff member - a driver, continue on. all of this is of course on top of the seemingly uncaring, thoughtless , nonsensical approach being offered by South Eastern for rail replacement work that will no doubt take a fair few months to complete. South Eastern have, and continue doing so, in treating rail passengers with such disdain as to suggest they are doing us a favour. We have no choice but to utilise their services and we need both the High Speed and regular service to be run by 2 separate and different companies in order to offer competition and improvement.
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I agree with all of the above. We must have direct HS trains from Deal during the peak hours. Have so far been going via Ramsgate but connections mean 15-25 mins waiting on station, not good enough! Also, the information regarding current replacement services has been appalling, the fast buses in particular which I only heard about today.
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Agree wholeheartedly with direct trains proposal. The alternative services are a joke. Either stuck on a bus (and what happens during Operation Stack or increased security at Dover to traffic?) or waiting in the cold to connect for half an hour at Ramsgate? We decided to drive from Deal to Ramsgate and catch the train from there, but a commute which now exceeds 5 hours a day isn't viable long term. As for the "compensation" - it is derisory. Would like to come to the meeting on Monday 11th but have a work function that evening
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They are also running a fast bus to Walmer/Deal from Folkestone West linking from the 17.37 and 18.37 from St Pancras but commuters were told to get off at Folkestone Central...!
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I'm a season ticket holder, commuitng daily from Martin Mill to London St Pancras. I normally catch the 0608 departure to arrive in London at 0725. The replacement train/bus/train service, which I experienced this morning was laborious. The bus connections are poor. Please do try to pressurise Sotheastern to run some direct high speed trains from Dover, Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal and Sandwich, via Ramsgate and Canterbury for the early peak services. Or, at the very least, run a connecting train shuttle from Dover to Ramsgate, to connect with the 0558 and 0628 Ramsgate services to London, via Canterbury West, to allow arrival in London at 0714 and 0742.
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Subject: Unbelievable to think that in this day and age (Southeastern) can't get the most basic of transport needs sorted out and I pay £6800.00 per annum
Today arrived at St P to get the 18.37 to Folkestone West to get to Deal. It is painful enough having to leave home at 5.30 instead of 6.30 and getting home at earliest at 20.30 due to the farcical situation of the line closure. And as with many others we demand compensation and a speedy resolve. BUT today's clown ole activity is really taking the .......
So arrived at St P to take the 18.37 as far as it runs at present - learn that the train would be delayed because of staff shortages due to late running incoming train.
Train arrived into platform and we boarded and train left at 19.00 approx 23 minutes late
We were told by guard that there would be an express coach to meet us to take us in our way Direct to Deal as has been the agreement.
Arrived at Folkestone West - there was NOT ONE member of southeastern on the arrival platform. It was pouring with rain.
We proceeded to walk to the far end of the east bound car park where there were two blue double decker buses.
The bus driver told us they were not running and we should go over to the west bound car park.
On travelling across the station I met four Revenue officers on the west bound station. I said to them. "Would it not be helpful to have been on the other side to assist us". The most incredibly rude and arrogant women looked at me, smirked and said "Yes it would". I asked her for her name. She refused to give it to me. This is intolerable behaviour. I took a photograph of the group as they refused to give me any details. So the women in turn took photographs of me.
As a passenger paying £6800 a year I do not expect to be treated in such a way.
On moving to the west bound car park we were told that the express press Coach had left completely empty on time despite the train it was due to meet was running 20 minutes late. We were told the next coach would be 40 minutes. I lost my temper but calmed and apologised.
We were left in the pouring rain with no transport arguing with a bus driver who explained it was not his fault.
Eventually after 20 minutes the bus controller was able to arouse one of the sleeping drivers on the otherside of the station East Bound We then had to traipse across the station again to get on a bus.
The driver showed absolutely no compassion for the passengers and decided to take the longest possible route from Folkstone West to Follestone Central on her way to Dover by the longest route possible. She failed to use the M20 but tol all the A roads. It is now 21.00 - and he situation is utterly preposterous and intolerable.
Sent from my iPhone
-------------------------
Subject: Today arrived at St P to get the 18.37 to Folkestone
Today arrived at St P to get the 18.37 to Folkestone West to get to Deal
Arrived to learn that the train would be delayed because of staff shortages
Train arrived into platform and boarded and train left at 19.00 approx
We were told by guard that there would be an express coach to meet us.
Arrived at Folkedtone West - there was not one member of southeastern on the arrival platform. It was pouring with rain.
We proceeded to walk to the far end of the east bound car park where there were two blue double decker buses.
The bus driver told us they were not running and we should go over to the west bound car park.
On travelling across the station I met four Revenue officers on the west bound station. I said to them. "Would it not be helpful to have been on the other side to assist us". The most incredibly rude and arrogant women looked at me, smirked and said "Yes it would". I asked her for her name. She refused to give it to me. This is intolerable behaviour. I took a photograph of the group as they refused to give me any details. So the women in turn took photographs of me.
As a passenger paying £6800 a year I do not expect to be treated in such a way.
On moving to the car park we were told that the express Coach had left on the dot of when the train should have arrived. We were told the next coach would be 40 minutes
Consequently we were left in the pouring rain with no transport.
Eventually after 20 minutes the bus controller was able to arouse one of the sleeping drivers on the otherside of the station East Bound We then had to traipse across the station again to get on a bus.
The driver showed absolutely no compassion for the passengers and decided to take the longest possible route from Folkstone West to Follestone Central on her way to Dover by the longest route possible. She failed to use the M20 but took all the A roads. It is now 21.00 - and he situation is utterly preposterous and intolerable.
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